Original Wheat Thins are vegan, as they only contain whole grain flour, canola oil, sugar, salt, cornstarch, malt syrup, refiner's syrup, leaveners, and preservatives. All of which are vegan.1 As for the flavored variety, some qualify as vegan and others contain milk products and/or honey. What we'll do here is go over a list of both vegan ...Six 20 oz party size boxes of Wheat Thins Original Whole Grain Wheat Crackers. 100% whole grain crackers with a deliciously salty, but slightly sweet taste. Each serving has 21 g of whole grains, and no cholesterol, high fructose corn syrup, artificial flavors or colors. Thin baked crackers are versatile whole wheat snacks great for parties and ...Wheat Thins Reduced Fat Whole Grain Wheat Crackers, Family Size, 12.5 oz. BUY. Wheat Thins Sundried Tomato & Basil Whole Grain Wheat Crackers, Family Size, 13 oz. BUY. Wheat Thins Original Whole Grain Wheat Crackers, Family Size, 14 oz. BUY. Wheat Thins Hint of Salt Low Sodium Whole Grain Wheat Crackers, 8.5 oz. BUY.4. Smoked Gouda. Amazon. Most Triscuit flavors are not super out of the box: The creators of Triscuit flavors are not really bandwagon jumpers when it comes to getting on board the flavor train. As apparent with the Dill flavored crackers, many Triscuit varieties tend to be dull or restrained in terms of taste.Wheat Thins Original Whole Grain Wheat Crackers, Family Size, 6 - 14 oz Boxes dummy Nabisco, Wheat Thins, 9oz Box (Pack of 4) (Choose Flavors Below) (Hint Of Salt)Past Winners. Stacy's®Pita Thins. Products. Stacy's®Sea Salt Pita Thins. View Product. Stacy's®5 Cheese Pita Thins. View Product. Stacy's®Garlic & Herbs Pita Thins. View Product.Wheat Thins Ranch Snacks have 19 g whole grain per 30 g serving. Nutritionists recommend eating 48 g or more of whole grains throughout the day. Nabisco. New look! Open for 100% awesome. Wrangle up some ranch & round-up the flavor! Rich & creamy flavor in every delicious 100% whole grain wheat bite. This package is sold by weight, not by volume.See all of the crispy, crunchy, delicious flavors of Rice Cakes we offer. Caramel Rice Cakes with Pecan Banana Foster. Goat Cheese Topped Rice Cakes with Beets and Avocado. PB&J Banana Topped Rice Cake. Rice Cakes and Lox Cream Cheese. View All Recipes.Product Details. 100% whole grain crackers with a deliciously salty, but slightly sweet taste. Each serving has 21 g of whole grains, and no cholesterol, high fructose corn syrup, artificial flavors or colors. Thin baked crackers are versatile whole wheat snacks great for parties and gatherings.Highlights. One 13 oz bag of 8 Thomas' Plain Bagel Thins. Thomas' thin bagels are crispy on the outside and soft on the inside when lightly toasted. Bagel Thins are pre sliced for convenience for you and your family on busy weekday mornings. Thomas' Bagel Thins are made with no high fructose corn syrup or artificial sweeteners.Wheat Thins contain enriched wheat flour, which is a refined grain that has been stripped of most of its fiber and nutrients. Additionally, they contain high fructose corn syrup, soybean oil, and other unhealthy ingredients, which raises questions about their health claims. In fact, when compared to other snack options, the nutritional benefits ...One 10.6 oz box of Red Oval Farms Stoned Wheat Thins Crackers. Gourmet crackers for dip made using cracked wheat for classic flavor. Thin, crispy wheat crackers offer a satisfying crunch and make great party snacks for kids and adults. Enjoy these light crackers on their own or with toppings for snacking at home.About this item. Six 8.5 oz boxes of Triscuit Balsamic Vinegar & Basil Whole Grain Wheat Crackers (packaging may vary) Balsamic vinegar and basil flavors complement the baked 100% whole grain wheat base. These snack crackers are Non-GMO Project Verified, Kosher and contain no artificial colors or flavors for delicious wholesome goodness.Wheat Thins. 693 reviews. $3.79 - $4.99. Buy 2 for $5 on Triscuits, Ritz & Wheat Thins crackers on select items. When purchased online. Add to cart. Shop Target for a wide assortment of Wheat Thins. Choose from Same Day Delivery, Drive Up or Order Pickup. Free standard shipping with $35 orders.It’s a cruel accident of history that Wheat Thins and Chicken in a Biskit are still with us, but Bacon [flavored] Thins were discontinued. Who makes bacon flavored crackers? RITZ Crackers Today, RITZ Crackers is joining forces with the savory flavor of bacon to create America’s ultimate new snack—RITZ Bacon flavored Crackers.For additional questions regarding delivery, please visit Business Center Customer Service or call 1-800-788-9968. Costco Business Center products can be returned to any of our more than 700 Costco warehouses worldwide. Wheat Thins, Original, 40 oz Baked with 100% whole grain wheat Always toasted, never fried 21 grams whole grain per serving.WHEAT CRACKER COMPARISON: Let's compare Mondelez's Nabisco Wheat Thins to Amazon-owned Whole Foods 365 Organic Wheat Square Crackers. (Source: Amazon Whole Foods Web site 4/24) ... Soy, Cottonseed, Canola, Flavors or Colors. (Sources: Brands Web sites 4/24) Neither money nor products are ever accepted to appear on the Closest To Homemade list.Wheat prices have risen sharply by 15-20% over the last few weeks. Meanwhile, the government slashed the production target by 5.7%. India exporting wheat to more parts of the world...Between the one-of-a-kind flavor and crispy texture of ROLD GOLD ® pretzels, you just might fall in love with this golden-baked snack all over again every time you take a break. Try them with peanut butter, hummus or on their own to take your break to a whole new level! Buy Online.56.8 ¢/oz. Nabisco Original Wheat Thins, 40 oz. 1. Free shipping, arrives in 3+ days. Wheat Thins Hint of CM31Salt Low Sodium Whole Grain Wheat Crackers, 6-8.5 oz Boxes. Free shipping, arrives in 3+ days.Between the one-of-a-kind flavor and crispy texture of ROLD GOLD ® pretzels, you just might fall in love with this golden-baked snack all over again every time you take a break. Try them with peanut butter, hummus or on their own to take your break to a whole new level! Buy Online.Explore the Flavors. LEARN MORE. LEARN MORE. LEARN MORE. VIEW ALL. Three bold frosted flavors to fuel your next big adventure! Recipes. Banana-Raisin Wheat Muffins . Get the full recipe at postconsumerbrands.com. Chewy Cherry Cookies . Get the full recipe at postconsumerbrands.com. Banana Bread . Get the full recipe at ...A staple in the U.S. and Canada, Wheat Thins are thin, crispy wheat crackers with great taste and a big crunch. They come in a variety of exciting flavors, including sundried tomato & basil, multigrain and parmesan basil. The brand also features Wheat Thins Toasted Chips made with whole grain, no trans-fat and 60 percent less fat per serving ...100% whole grain crackers21 g of whole grain per servingAlways toasted, never fried, so they're lower in fat and calories than fried snacksNo high fructose corn syrup, cholesterol, artificial flavors or colorsBulk pack of Wheat Thins Original crackers includes two 20 oz. bags packed in one box for easy, flavor-saving storageShutterstock. According to Statista, Wheat Thins are the fifth best-selling cracker brand in the U.S. However, they are banned in the U.K., Japan, and parts of Europe, because they contain an ingredient that …This package contains one 9 oz. box of Wheat Thins Ranch Flavor Crackers. Made from 100% whole grain wheat, Wheat Thins crackers are baked instead of fried for a crisp, wholesome flavor that keeps everyone coming back for more. Each serving of crackers is only 5 grams of fat, has 19 grams of whole grains, and is free of cholesterol, high ...Wheat Thins Ranch Snacks have 19 g whole grain per 30 g serving. Nutritionists recommend eating 48 g or more of whole grains throughout the day. Nabisco. New look! Open for 100% awesome. Wrangle up some ranch & round-up the flavor! Rich & creamy flavor in every delicious 100% whole grain wheat bite. This package is sold by weight, not by volume.Reviews of 8 kinds of Wheat Thins (plus 11,106 other snacks) by the snack tasters at Taquitos.net 11,114 snack reviews: 163 brands • 158 flavors • 86 snack types • 2009 companies • 90 countries • Latest reviewsSep 30, 2021 · Last year, Frito-Lay decided to reduce the number of their products by about 21%, which means that some much-loved flavors of their iconic Doritos and Lay's chips were discontinued or put on pause. The company responded to a fan Tweet confirming the Salsa Verde flavor was among those experiencing a temporary pause in production. Although the ...By hand: Combine the flour, sugar, salt, paprika and butter in a medium bowl. Using a pastry blender or your fingertips, work the butter into the mixture until mixture resembles coarse cornmeal. Add 1/4 cup (60 ml) cold water, stir with spoon until combined. Knead once or twice on counter. Heat your oven to 400 degrees.Wheat Thins Original Whole Grain Wheat Crackers make evening snacking delicious. Each serving delivers 21 grams of whole grains, and these thin crackers contain no artificial flavors or colors to keep your evening snacks wholesome. They're perfect for munching while you relax in the evening. Each 9.1 ounce box comes sealed for freshness.7.31.13 11:15 AM EDT By Laura Northrup @lnorthrup. food ads vintage advertising kraft nabisco pillsbury food sticks bacon thins. Over time, food tastes change. This happens both because of trends ...One 8.5 oz box of Wheat Thins Original 100% Whole Grain Wheat Crackers; 100% whole grain crackers with a deliciously salty, but slightly sweet taste; Each serving has 21 g of whole grains, and no cholesterol, high fructose corn syrup, artificial flavors or colors; Thin baked crackers are versatile whole wheat snacks great for parties and gatheringsGet Ranch Wheat Thins products you love delivered to you in as fast as 1 hour via Instacart. Contactless delivery and your first delivery is free! Start shopping online now with Instacart to get your favorite products on-demand. Free delivery on first 3 orders. Terms apply. Dismiss offer banner. Skip Navigation. 0 .This Triscuit Crackers variety pack lets you try four different flavors of this deliciously wholesome cracker. This snack bundle includes Original, Rosemary and Olive Oil, Roasted Garlic and Cracked Pepper and Olive Oil. Starting with real ingredients and baked to crunchy perfection, the snack crackers' woven-wheat texture stands up to thick ...Original Wheat Thins crackers get their light flavor from 100% whole grain wheat for a delicious, wholesome snack. Wheat Thins whole grain crackers have a crunchy texture and classic flavor, without artificial colors or flavors. Triscuit Original Whole Grain Wheat Crackers are made simply with quality ingredients. Baked to perfection, these ...Yes, Nabisco has discontinued its crackers. Not only crackers, but Nabisco has discontinued several of its items. We’ve found that these crackers have to be found available at some websites such as Amazon while some websites marked, “this item has been discontinued.”. You can check its availability on your own.Thinning automotive paint is necessary before using a spray gun to apply the paint. The paint needs to pass easily through the gun's nozzle to achieve an even color across your aut...One serving of Metamucil has 2.4 grams of this soluble fiber. One serving of Metamucil capsules has at least 1.8 grams of this soluble fiber. ** Survey of 291 adults who self-reported that they felt lighter and more energetic after completing the Metamucil Two Week Challenge. ^ Procter & Gamble calculation based in part on data reported by ...There's nothing like the satisfying crunch of original Wheat Thins. The nutty, whole grain flavor makes these snack crackers the ideal cracker companion to dips, spreads and toppings. Baked with 100% whole grain wheat, these thin whole grain crackers have the crunchy texture and salty taste you love without artificial colors or flavors. Each ...EXPLORE RECIPES. OUR PLANET. Delight your taste buds with Kashi Raisin Whole Wheat Biscuit Breakfast Cereal. A satisfying whole grain cereal that packs 8 grams of protein and fiber!Add to Bag · $4.99. OREO Thins Chocolate Sandwich Cookies are the classic OREO cookies you've always loved, but with a crisp, delicate and delicious twist. These thin cookies are a lighter, crispier take on Original OREO cookies with less crumbs and more crunch. Sandwich cookie thins are great for snacking, sharing, or traveling.Nestle has quietly discontinued their line of Lean Pockets this year. The frozen flaky-dough sandwiches provided a healthier alternative to the iconic Hot Pockets. And while the latter have been in high demand during the pandemic, it seems that their Lean cousins didn't bring enough sales to justify their existence.6 pre-sliced 100% Whole Wheat Sandwich Thins rolls made with premium ingredients like olive oil and sea salt. One 12 oz pack of six Oroweat 100% Whole Wheat Sandwich Thins Rolls Oroweat 100% Whole Wheat Sandwich Thins Rolls are baked with premium ingredients like olive oil and sea salt for a satisfying and delicious bite Oroweat 100% Whole ...Find out which Wheat Thins flavors are still available and which ones have been discontinued over the years. See the ingredients, nutritional information and reviews of each flavor, from Original to Zesty Salsa. See moreBuy 2 for $5 on Triscuits, Ritz & Wheat Thins crackers on select items. When purchased online. Add to cart. Wheat Thins Sundried Tomato & Basil Crackers - 8.5oz. Wheat Thins. 4.8 out of 5 stars with 495 ratings. 495 reviews. SNAP EBT eligible. $3.79 ($0.45/ounce) Buy 2 for $5 on Triscuits, Ritz & Wheat Thins crackers.100% whole grain crackers21 g of whole grain per servingAlways toasted, never fried, so they're lower in fat and calories than fried snacksNo high fructose corn syrup, cholesterol, artificial flavors or colorsBulk pack of Wheat Thins Original crackers includes two 20 oz. bags packed in one box for easy, flavor-saving storageOne 7.1 oz bag of RITZ Crisp and Thins Original with Creamy Onion and Sea Salt (packaging may vary) Light and tasty twist on RITZ crackers. Reduced fat chips have a crispy, thin shape that's perfect for snacking. A crunchy snack that's great for entertaining. Oven baked chips have 50 percent less fat than the leading regular fried potato chips.Product details. Is Discontinued By Manufacturer : No. Package Dimensions : 7.95 x 5.28 x 4.53 inches; 7.97 Ounces. UPC : 044000008789. Manufacturer : Nabisco. ASIN : B074N7NS5S. Best Sellers Rank: #234,370 in Grocery & Gourmet Food ( See Top 100 in Grocery & Gourmet Food) #403 in Wheat Crackers.Moving forward, if your new flight is more expensive, you'll have to fork over some cash to cover the difference. Early during the pandemic, United Airlines added an option for fly...Veggie Herb Made with Cauliflower. Made With Real. Cauliflower. 7G. of Protein. Plant. Based. Introducing our Veggie Herb Sandwich Thins® rolls, crafted with pride and baked with premium ingredients like cauliflower, olive oil and sea salt. Perfectly-sized and 150 calories per roll, we love them and know you will too!Whole Foods sells its own 365-brand Cracked Wheat Crackers and as The Takeout astutely noted, these "dupes" actually ranked higher than the original Stoned Wheat Thins in a taste test done by "The San Francisco Chronicle" back in 2007. The 365 Crackers are sold at Whole Foods and through Amazon, making them an easy, accessible replacement.We would like to show you a description here but the site won’t allow us.Amazon customers can also recycle their old cameras by requesting a free UPS shipping label through the Amazon Recycling Progam. Amazon is now offering to replace customers’ discon...Find out which Wheat Thins flavors are still available and which ones have been discontinued over the years. See the ingredients, nutritional information and reviews of each flavor, from Original to Zesty Salsa. See moreWe're doing our best to get things working smoothly! Recently the Nabisco company discontinued the spicy buffalo flavored wheat thins. AND WE WANT THEM BACK!!!! i have searched and searched and everybody seems to want them back. so BRING THEM BACK PLEASE!!!!! that was the main type of lavor we got and now we can't get any more of them.One 7.1 oz box of Triscuit Thin Crisps Original Whole Grain Wheat Vegan Crackers (packaging may vary) Whole grain vegan crackers made with sunflower oil and sea salt for a simple and delicious taste. 100% whole wheat vegan cracker snacks are Non-GMO and contain no artificial colors or flavors. Baked kosher snacks feature a hearty, crunchy woven ...wheat thins discontinued flavors › Popular family snack 'quietly' discontinued after brand dropped much-loved cookie The US Sun. ... This package contains one box of Wheat Thins Cracked Pepper Olive Oil Flavor Made from 100% whole grain wheat, Wheat Thins crackersTriscuit Organic Original Whole Grain Wheat Crackers are made simply with quality ingredients. Baked to perfection, these vegan snack crackers use 100% whole grain wheat proudly grown in the USA, sunflower oil, and sea salt for a classic flavor. The square snack crackers are made with their signature woven texture for a satisfying crunch.Last year, Frito-Lay decided to reduce the number of their products by about 21%, which means that some much-loved flavors of their iconic Doritos and Lay's chips were discontinued or put on pause. The company responded to a fan Tweet confirming the Salsa Verde flavor was among those experiencing a temporary pause in production. Although the ...Sometimes, you really don't know what you've got 'til it's gone. Inadequate as I am to properly articulate what loss feels like, I turn to the poets. So in the words Edna St. Vince...In case you were wondering, an original Wheat Thin is 1.44-inches wide, 1.31-inches tall, and .12-inches thick. Mondelēz said the new cracker is 14% slimmer, which would bring it to a lean .103-inches, give or take. A recommended serving of the thinned snack is 22 pieces — six more than the 16 you'd go through in a serving of original ...Check out our full offering of Wheat Thins products, including new arrivals, limited edition flavors, nutritional info and where to buy. Wheat Thins BIG Whole Grain Wheat Crackers, 8 oz. BUY. Wheat Thins Original Whole Grain Wheat Crackers, 40 oz. BUY.Wheat Thins Ranch Whole Grain Wheat Crackers, 6 - 9 oz Boxes. 100% Whole Grain. 100% Irresistible! There's nothing like the whole grain crunch of baked Wheat Thins crackers. They get their nutty, slightly sweet flavor from 100% whole grain wheat. Enjoy them with cheese, soup, or dip, or in place of your favorite chips.The Sundried Tomato and Basil flavor of Wheat Thins is vegan. This is according to the ingredients listed by Nutritionix. Ingredients. Whole Grain Wheat Flour, Soybean Oil, Sugar, Cornstarch, Malt Syrup (from Corn and Barley), Salt, Invert Sugar, Leavening (Calcium Phosphate and/or Baking Soda), Tomato Powder, Sundried Tomato Powder, Garlic …This package contains one nine oz box of Wheat Thins Ranch Flavor Crackers. Made from 100% whole grain wheat, Wheat Thins crackers are baked instead of fried for a crisp, wholesome flavor that keeps everyone coming back for more. Each serving of crackers is only five grams of fat, has 19 grams of whole grains, and is free of cholesterol, high ...Even the now discontinued bacon-flavored cracker did not contain bacon. The only flavor not suitable for all vegans is Honey Wheat. We are not sure what magic Ritz is using to so perfectly encompass these flavors without the use of the actual product. But we set out to find out if they could also capture the same great flavors in the other ...Six 7.1 oz boxes of Triscuit Thin Crisps Original Whole Grain Wheat Vegan Crackers (packaging may vary) Whole grain crackers made with sunflower oil and sea salt for a simple and delicious taste ; 100% whole wheat vegan cracker snacks are Non-GMO and contain no artificial colors or flavorsBetween the one-of-a-kind flavor and crispy texture of ROLD GOLD ® pretzels, you just might fall in love with this golden-baked snack all over again every time you take a break. Try them with peanut butter, hummus or on their own to take your break to a whole new level! Buy Online.17 Discontinued Chip Flavors We Want Back. You can't say Lay's isn't inventive with these wacky flavors. By Meghan De Maria. Published on June 15, 2022 | 8:00 AM. Shutterstock. BBQ. Salt and vinegar. Sour cream and onion. You know all of the classic potato chip flavors along with iconic chip brands like Doritos, Lay's, and Tostitos.One 14 oz family size box of Wheat Thins Original Whole Grain Wheat Crackers (packaging may vary) Nutty, whole grain flavor gives these snack crackers a salty-sweet taste. Each serving has 21 g of whole grains, and no cholesterol, high fructose corn syrup, artificial flavors or colors. Thin snack crackers baked with 100% whole grain wheat.Is Ritz crisp and thins have a nice flavor but unfortunately like all the other ones I've tried the bag arrived half crumbled. Someone in design is to rework the packaging to keep these from ending up just a pile of crumbs by the time they get to me. ... Wheat Thins Reduced Fat Whole Grain Wheat Crackers, Family Size, 12.5 oz. 69 4.4 out of 5 ...Details. Ingredients. More. Snacks, 100% Whole Grain, Original, Family Size! No artificial flavors or colors. Per 16 Pieces: 140 calories; 0.5 g sat fat (3% DV); 200 mg sodium (9% DV); 5 g total sugars. 100% whole grain. 21 g whole grain per 31 g serving. Wheat Thins Original snacks have 21g whole grains per 31g serving.Once flavored Wheat Thins started hitting grocery store shelves, a ranch version was bound to make a debut. After all, ranch is a party staple, perfect for dipping crackers and chips as much as veggie sticks. So adding a light dusting of ranch seasoning to the slightly sweet, nutty flavor of Wheat Thins was a no-brainer. ...We would like to show you a description here but the site won’t allow us.Once flavored Wheat Thins started hitting grocery store shelves, a ranch version was bound to make a debut. After all, ranch is a party staple, perfect for dipping crackers and chips as much as veggie sticks. So adding a light dusting of ranch seasoning to the slightly sweet, nutty flavor of Wheat Thins was a no-brainer. ...Each 40 ounce box comes with two 20 ounce snack packs inside to keep the crackers fresh. Nutty wheat flavor for a rich whole grain snack. Pair snack crackers with cheese and meat or enjoy by themselves. Baked crackers feature a crunchy texture. Thin square crackers are perfect for dipping or topping.One 8.5 oz box of Wheat Thins Original Whole Grain Wheat Crackers (packaging may vary) Nutty, whole grain flavor gives these snack crackers a salty-sweet taste. Each serving has 21 g of whole grains, and no cholesterol, high fructose corn syrup, artificial flavors or colors. Thin snack crackers baked with 100% whole grain wheat.While the original Cheez-It you munch on may be the exact same flavor as the Cheez-It of decades past, other flavors have come and gone. Over the decades, the snack cracker has seen many dozens of spin-off products, experimenting with shapes, sizes, and add-ins—but most importantly, Cheez-It flavors.As new product flavors are developed, some of the others quietly disappear, and before you ...One 20 oz party size box of Wheat Thins Original Whole Grain Wheat Crackers. 100% whole grain crackers with a deliciously salty, but slightly sweet taste. Each serving has 21 g of whole grains, and no cholesterol, high fructose corn syrup, artificial flavors or colors. Thin baked crackers are versatile whole wheat snacks great for parties and ...One 8.5 oz box of Wheat Thins Original Whole Grain Wheat Crackers (packaging may vary) Nutty, whole grain flavor gives these snack crackers a salty-sweet taste. Each serving has 21 g of whole grains, and no cholesterol, high fructose corn syrup, artificial flavors or colors. Thin snack crackers baked with 100% whole grain wheat.Shutterstock. According to Statista, Wheat Thins are the fifth best-selling cracker brand in the U.S. However, they are banned in the U.K., Japan, and parts of Europe, because they contain an ingredient that …. Get Ranch Wheat Thins products you love deliv56.8 ¢/oz. Nabisco Original Wheat Thins, 40 oz. Stoned Wheat Thins Crackers. Contains 1.5 g fat per serving. No saturated fat. No cholesterol. See nutrition information for sodium content. Red oval farms. Imported. Blue skies, golden wheat and the company of good friends. With a heritage of simple goodness, delicious, wholesome stoned wheat thins are one of the best entertaining crackers ...Snacks, Original, 6 Packs. No artificial flavors or colors. Per Pack: 130 calories; 0 g sat fat (0% DV); 190 mg sodium (8% DV); 4 g total sugars. 19 g whole grain per 28 g serving. Nutritionists recommend eating 48 g or more of whole grains throughout the day. Ingredient derived from a bioengineered source. how2recycle.info. Or try Wheat Thins Popped Chips, Toasted Product details. Package Dimensions : 8.9 x 8 x 5.4 inches; 2.5 Pounds. UPC : 044000030421. Manufacturer : Nabisco. ASIN : B00UMEG86O. Best Sellers Rank: #448,389 in Grocery & Gourmet Food ( See Top 100 in Grocery & Gourmet Food) #815 in Wheat Crackers. Customer Reviews: 3.2 6 ratings.These Olive Oil Wheat Thins list both olive oil and canola oil as ingredients, but don't have any soybean oil! It can be worth it to take the time to check the ingredients of products every so often. Since manufacturers do introduce new flavors or change their ingredients over time, you might find a new soy-free variety to try. Overall, these aren't bad but they aren't our favorite version ...
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